67 Comments

The few bad apples argument, instead of a vicious police culture, completely parallels racism as individual bias rather than structural inequality

Expand full comment

Wow. Eloquently & succinctly said.

Expand full comment

Isn't the "vicious police culture" differentially expressed to people of different races?

Heartbreaking.

Expand full comment

A thorough and necessary response. Thx.

Expand full comment

Disgusting typical privileged white male blaming those who are not operating from a position of power is PURE RACISTS GAS-LIGHTING!

He is not sincere, and just via his lack of honest scholarship should lose whatever position he holds.

Expand full comment

This piece gave me life and your analysis and research shows how white supremacy works as a deep-seated subliminal tool that is hard for many who bought in to the myths to recognize. It is the idea of double-consciousness brought into modernity as all of America’s marginalized communities see two Americas that the dominant groups refuses or organically can’t see or imagine.

Expand full comment

There is also a “magic negro” trope always at play when Black issues are brought to national light as if it’s the secret ingredient for all other issues.

Expand full comment

Thank you for this.

Expand full comment

This is such an amazing and clearly stated argument. I came here to say that Black women have also been disproportionally harmed by policing and vigilante racists - not just the “sons and brothers” you mention. Thinking right away of Sandra Bland and Breonna Taylor.

Expand full comment
Jan 28, 2023·edited Jan 28, 2023

Is it useful to make the distinction between "ownership" and "blame" for the problem here? White people as a whole are to blame, but it's the Black people who "own" the problem, as they are receiving the brunt of the damage. I think for this reason it's always going to be harder to get White participation than Black on this cause, even though there are a vast number of White people who are sympathetic and want to see this fixed.

One very disappointing situation I observed was a local election not long after the Floyd murder, for a vacant position being pursued by a Black and a White candidate. In the very liberal area where I live, the White candidate had good bona fides, but did not speak directly to police violence as an issue they would prioritize (and they haven't really addressed it in the years following, AFAICT). The Black candidate, who had a strong background in the community and had held a county-level positions, clearly had police violence as a higher priority, but was viewed by people I know as being "too angry," and the White candidate was elected. I saw no inappropriate anger in the videos of this candidate I found online, so I'm thinking the judgment arose from preconceptions and craftily edited video clips others saw as ads that I didn't see. This sort of thing makes this an uphill fight to elect motivated people to positions where they can actually accomplish things. But the next time a similar choice in an election arises, I'm going to be more able and quick to articulate why I think "too angry" is most likely a good thing here (the candidate is truly engaged on the issue). Police violence against Black people is in the top tier of priorities that need to be addressed in this country.

Expand full comment

I am curious.....did the white candidate win the black voters? Or was this area predominantly white? Cuz i am well aware why some white folks vote the way they do....I'm trying to wrap my head around the Candace Browns of this country.

Expand full comment

"...trying to wrap my head around..."

The main personal experience I have comes from meeting the daughter of a neighbor, who was/is living in a rural area that is predominantly White and votes GOP. It makes sense to me that this very nice and intelligent person would gravitate towards fitting into her social context. And many of the so-called GOP values do appeal (e.g., value of hard work, initiative, personal responsibility) even though these seem mostly to be cover-stories that allow the wealthy to justify continued exploitation. Speculation on my part, I think as social animals, our emotions and values can be as "contagious" as having a need to yawn when the person next to us does.

I guess that just because someone becomes a national figure, it doesn't mean that their life experience has broadened overly much, especially if they sink into a defensive, counter-punching position.

Expand full comment

The area is very mixed with various enclaves, some quite wealthy, some quite poor. AFAIK, the Black candidate did not have a problem with Black voters, at least, not with my Black friends. Both candidates were unknown to most of the voters. I am not enough of a political nuts-and-bolts mind to have kept track of hard numbers or percentages. I kind of wished I had, as this vote has really stuck out in my mind. The White candidate had the backing of something of a "machine" and more campaign funds, I think, and did a good job of painting a deceptive "first impression" that scared White voters to vote for their "safe" liberal candidate.

The Black candidate perhaps didn't anticipate this smear (had never been charged with this before) and did not have an effective counter prepared? Again, I'm just an observer, but it seems to me, learning from this, if I'm going to engage in a campaign that needs White people's votes, I'm going straight to invoking the images of George Floyd and others, and discussing the need to be passionate and persistent about making progress against the elements of racism that White voters do acknowledge (but with "how to solve" rather than "blame" or "retribution" language, where possible, to help minimize defensive responses). Maybe I'm naive, but it seems to me if there are two competing images, one the stereotypical "angry" Black and the other being passionate but focusing on solutions to a known problem, I think the latter should do well. There are a lot of White voters who care a great deal, but are subject to human nature and having their buttons pushed, especially since for most, the race-based harassment is not present in their lives as a daily reminder.

At this point, as a comfortable incumbent of several years, I don't think the White politician that won this election is going to be challenged. I've written several emails raising the issue of police violence as a high priority, but none of the responses have directly spoken to that issue, just an array of other Liberal/Progressive priorities of varying significance.

Expand full comment

Thank you for this excellent analysis and rebuttal of Friedersdorf's article. One thing I would add, which is really an aspect of white supremacy, is the ever-increasing MILITARIZATION of policing-- not just the equipment, but the fact that the murderers were part of a special force (which appears to be basically a killing machine).

Expand full comment

I agree, Kay. The militarization of policing is a massive problem. This "warrior cop" mentality needs to be thrown out with the toxic masculinity that drives it. They need to focus on the "serve and protect" and "peace keeping" parts of what police are supposed to do.

I hope Tyre Nichols' mother was right when she said God sent Tyre down here on a mission, one he's completed and has now gone home - that mission being to be the final instance of murder by cop to force this change. I'm not holding my breath, but I still hope.

Expand full comment

I write as a white man. I have remarked for years that it has been Black people in this country who have worked and shed blood for many of the dearest rights and freedoms that our whole country shares in today. Please do not drop this on white people alone to fix because it will not happen, even though it should.

It seems that WHITE PEOPLE NEED BLACK PEOPLE in order to fix this. Why? We whites are indoctrinated in systemic racism and white supremacy and we need Black people to help inform us daily of the plight they are in because of us.

Expand full comment

Dude. Black people have been "informing us daily of the plight they are in because of us" for over fifty years. It's on US to do the work to make the change. They can't make that change. They can only inform us and THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THAT. It's not their fault that most of us don't listen, or worse don't believe them. They can't exactly force us. IT'S UP TO US.

Btw, I'm an old white woman who is so pale I glow in the dark and even *I* can see this. You would, too, if you stopped being defensive and noticed the ... irony? ... of you being on the substack of a black woman who is informing us daily of the plight they are in because of us white people and you are in the comments telling her not to drop this on white people alone to fix. Again, BLACK PEOPLE ARE DOING THEIR PART. IT'S US WHO AREN'T.

Expand full comment

Dudette. Read my comment again. You know there is systemic racism among white people in every part of this country. Whites alone are not directly affected and without Black input, you know nothing will change.

Expand full comment

I read your comment numerous times and you just restated the problematic part, so there is no question on what you meant. So let me see if I can explain this another way - when you know someone is being bullied, do you just ignore it until the victim tells you and all the other people around you that they're being bullied? I hope like hell not. YOU know it's happening, so why don't YOU tell everyone it's happening so ALL of you can help? Why do you expect the already-beaten-WAY-down-and-emotionally-exhausted victim to do it? THAT IS US WHITE PEOPLE'S JOB.

Expecting PoC to teach us white people is covert racism. Stop it.

https://radicaldiscipleship.net/2017/07/05/white-supremacy-overt-covert/

https://www.salon.com/2015/04/14/black_people_are_not_here_to_teach_you_what_so_many_white_americans_just_cant_grasp_partner/

Expand full comment

Sadly, for most humans , if it does not effect them personally they wont fight too hard. I ama gay female and so many friends/family say the right thing but are zo u aware ....and when it comes to voting or fighting discrimination, their personal situation always overrides.

Expand full comment

This is precisely why making this a Black only issue has been a tactical mistake. Most victims of place violence are not Black, but you would never know this looking at the social and regular media. This is a nationwide problem that effects everyone. Alas, it is viewed as a Black only problem... As evidenced by your comment.

Expand full comment

Very true. Or we might make the truly revolutionary step of being self critical. As the planet boils it gets clearer that the European/Christian/Western/Capitalist take has not served even Europe. In the post she says something about police and prevention of violent crime. Police were not invented for that, they were to protect one community from another. It was left to them, during slavery, to decide which community is criminal. Little has changed.

Expand full comment

Brilliant! What gives Conor Friedersdorf the authority to determine whether Black Lives Matter has succeeded or failed? A self-selecting poll of Atlantic Magazine readers? His opinion is reckless and ill-considered. Thank you, Sherrilyn Ifill, for setting the record straight.

Expand full comment

Thank you for listing the progress that's been made. I need some basis for hope.

Expand full comment

Yes! “But there is one thing about which I’m sure: the way forward to ending the white supremacy that fuels systemic police violence at this moment, begins with white people.” It has always been this. I am sorry it took me so long to learn this, but I will preach this to myself and to my white friends and family until the day I die. As always, beautifully written. I am sorry for the circumstances under which and to whom you write, and I am ever grateful for your brilliance and guidance.

Expand full comment

Great article, thoughtful and informative. Additionally, there is another thing about which I’m sure: the way forward to ending the white supremacy that fuels systemic medical violence against Black (specifically Black women) at this moment, also begins with white people.

Expand full comment

Thank you for speaking truth about The Atlantic article. I read it, and feel it's scope is very narrow. Friedsdorf never addresses how centuries of systemic injustices and inequities, based on White Male Supremacy, woven into our governmental bodies and processes to this day, suppresses opportunities for a full, healthy, prosperous life for Black and African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, Chinese Americans, all other American minorities including LBGTQ, the Disabled, Women of all races, cultures and backgrounds, people of non- Christian diverse religious backgrounds, agnostics, atheists. I apologize if I missed anyone..

SherriIyn, I found your post because Joyce Vance referenced it in her post yesterday on Civil Discourse. She spoke about the murder of Memphian Tyre Nichols at the hands of Memphis police. I wanted to share a link to Tyre's photography catalogue shared through an e-newsletter "Memphis Flyer".

https://www.memphisflyer.com/want-to-see-tyre-nichols-memphis-check-out-his-photography-website. I hope you & your readers enjoy the peace and beauty that emanates in his photographs and hear his voice in the intro Tyre writes as he introduces his work.

We are all condemned to become a statistic of violence unless we scream continuously for the same equality and justice for WE THE PEOPLE, ALL THE PEOPLE in these United States of America. Thank you for sharing your vision and experience, SherriIyn!

Celeste Grimoldi

Expand full comment

There is also the military culture of law enforcement, in which it's assumed that anyone who refuses even the slightest order is guilty, and therefore subject to whatever punishment they (law enforcement) decide to dole out, without mitigation or redress. When law enforcement operates in the bubble of total immunity from prosecution - for anything - which they currently "legally" enjoy, this will continue to happen. The occasional police officer who is fired and/or prosecuted is simply a sop to public opinion, but doesn't change anything.

Expand full comment

“I do not want to end this prologue without referring to the images of hope in the Epilogue. Here you apply part of the research results: hope is nourished by images and narratives that keep it alive within the life of God (theological virtue) and in the history of salvation (commitment).

I am going to mention one of those which you talk about #Black Lives Matter, becasue of its potential for reconcilation. This image allows us to understand that, although hope imagines the future there is also an energy nurtuing hope in an individual (life story) and a common past (History). In fact, depending on our disposition towards the events of the past, this will be the messure of our acceptance and reconciliation of them as a source of wise hope.”

Pope Frnacis quoted in his personal Preface to Alberto Dominguez Munaiz, SJ, Freedom Freed by Hope; A Conversation with Johann B. Metz and William F Lynch on the ‘Identity Crisis’ in the West

Expand full comment